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ECT News Community   »   TechNewsWorld Talkback   »   Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux



Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux
Posted by Kagehi on 2004-09-27 13:39:32
In reply to Rob Enderle
Having finally decided to sign in to the site so I can post comments (a fact that I find annoying, but is definitely better than the junk you got on /. you talk about), I came across this thread. Man are there a lot of posts...
Well, I am one of those, as you may have noticed, that doesn't use my name. However, a search on Kagehi will turn up someone in Japan (not me) and a scattering of posts made by me, a lot of them at www.gammon.com.au, where I have been heavilly involved with the forums for a piece of telnet client software I use. I have used Windows 3.1, which I always got entertainment from, due to the odd feature that it tended to get more and more stable as new dll version where installed, expect when it didn't, because some other older program ate the new version and replaced it with an old one. I later used 95, which was an improvement, at least once I disabled the active desktop and some of the other integrations, thus freeing up more than 50% of the resources. It was totally unusable on the machine I had at the time with them enables. I later got 98SE and am now typing on a machine that I fully expect not to reboot properly the next time I shutdown, something I have to do because creeping instability has caused it to swallow memory like a leaking bucket. Reinstalling, especially with all the needed patches over dialup, will take me 2-3 days. How do I know this? Because I installed a version recently on our other machine and that is how long it took to get the bloody thing to where it now still refuses to run one MS 98 game, which did run properly on the previous installation of the same OS. Go figure...
I will eventually install XP on mine. Why? Because the 'improved' installers don't work right under WINE in Linux, even though nearly everything once actually installed does, and I have thousands in software I can't afford to replace and are tied to MS like people in the stearage section of the Titanic. Ah, but I meantioned Linux, so maybe I am one of those Zealots..
Not quite. I only got involved with it in the last year or so and since then I installed Fedora on our other machine, since I didn't have disk space for it on mine. I don't use it. I have booted up Knoppix once or twice, but again hardly every do anything with it. I am simply tired of MS telling me I have to buy OS version blah blah, which will fix all my problems, except for the need to upgrade every bloody piece of hardware short of the mouse to run it. Why? Because along with the vaporware I don't get, the bug fixes I do get and the new flaws there comes even less control over the OS, even more things doing stuff behind my back for 'my own good' and 5000 new bugs that didn't exist in the last one. I read recently that MS itself admited that one version of its OS had 63,000 outstanding bugs. What they had time to count, but not actually fix them?
Seriously, from what I understand XP isn't even as stable as 2000 and there are still bugs in it from the days of IE 1.0 and Windows 3.1. This includes the code from some stuff from 3.1. Yeah, maybe the OS doesn't technically use it, but it is still there anyway. The only major improvements seem to be in memory management, which prevents most of the unfixed bugs from causing quite as much havoc as they used to. But the bugs themselves are still there. But I am going to buy it anyway, because unless I want to lose the investment I already may into buying stuff for it, I don't have any other real choice.
Frankly, I would have loved to be an MS advocate, but then I found out about a lot of their practices, which still continue today with being sued over now media player integration, instead of IE and in the near future integration of search functions such as found in Dashboard from Ximian and Novell already, among others, but which 'they' don't feel it necessary to integrate so much into the OS that people won't have any choice but use it. I love how a 10% difference in code between XP Home and XP Pro means a 3x increase (or something like that) in price or how that 10% is merely the deletion of tools that came with all versions prior to XP from the Home edition. It scares me to see them making the new Windows Media Edition and trying to swallow that industry as well and if they ever do start making stuff to go in cars, I am going to start riding a bicycle everyplace from now on. Though how I am going to get on it with the padding and body armor I will be wearing to defend me against the cars whose brakes fail randomly and need to be rebooted every four weeks I have no idea. lol
Yesterday I found this site, which pretty much sums up my own aggrivation and distrust of MS, their anti-"anything that isn't our standard" and general lack of interest in real innovation or quality. In fact, it has made me seriously reconsider if just reinstalling 98 isn't better than letting MS crawl even farther into my life:
http://www.euronet.nl/users/frankvw/rants/microsoft/IhateMS.html
All in all, it is disturbing the number of people who both have used MS products for years, *and* in some cases even used to work for them, I have found recently when hunting for some bit of information who now refuse to have anything to do with them. If I could, I would be one of them. You don't get zealots without one of two things:
1. A substantial reason to hate the target
2. Misinformation and intentional propaganda.
I would be inclines to place most of the Linux zealots in the former, while a lot of MS supporters are in the later. Why? Because as the guy who made the site above says in his site, "Who can possible justify saying their systems that need to be rebooted an average of once every four weeks with 30 minutes of downtime are more stable that the products of systems that are up for literally months and rarely offline for even close to that long?" His answer is simple, people that have spent years convincing them that four weeks of stability and random crashes are 'expected' and know that as long as their three ring circus convinces anyone to buy something, that company is stuck with MS forever. As one of the stuck, I couldn't agree with this assessment more.
Oh.. BTW, why the heck does this comment system eat white space between paragraphs?




 * Topic  Author  Date
Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux  Rob Enderle  2003-10-20 13:59:02
Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux  Kagehi  2004-09-27 13:39:32
Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux  winuxD  2004-09-17 11:26:25
Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux  colo_larry  2004-04-12 10:56:14
Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux  phreakshow  2004-03-11 21:29:03
Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux  linux_zealot  2004-03-11 07:37:26
Historical precedent for this conflict  gawiman  2004-02-03 08:31:35
Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux  Hucasys  2004-02-02 09:55:30
Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux  uwntedmutiny  2004-01-30 04:46:24
Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux  john_j  2004-01-17 07:41:54
What the SCO case is about  waratah  2003-12-31 21:50:28
Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux  Robincc  2003-12-17 11:15:55
Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux  Robincc  2003-12-17 04:00:26
Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux  Curious  2003-10-29 08:46:52
Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux  Robincc  2003-12-16 10:29:59
real threat to open source  constant  2003-10-24 13:12:18
Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux  patrickbealey  2003-10-23 03:12:35
Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux  zjimward  2003-10-22 09:55:45
it is clear where you are comming from.  jk_schnider  2003-10-21 22:07:08
Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux  Daemon  2003-10-21 21:09:14
Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux  Timex  2003-10-21 19:48:50
only 3 groups  quadelirus  2003-10-21 18:34:11
Re: only 3 groups  dclanepe  2003-12-14 11:58:03
Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux  sinp  2003-10-21 16:19:58
help, my neighbors are communists!  yossarian  2003-10-21 13:10:03
Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux  gatorarts  2003-10-21 12:21:44
Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux  cypherpunks  2003-10-21 11:46:52
Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux  saigumi  2003-10-21 11:40:00
The Rules of Slashdot  MajorDongle  2003-10-21 11:33:46
Re: The Rules of Slashdot  ixnayrox  2003-10-21 18:43:43
Editor, please....  sensitive  2003-10-21 10:50:00
Re: Editor, please....  Zebop  2003-10-21 11:57:40
Re: Editor, please....  bex  2003-10-26 14:40:09
Re: Editor, please....  zjimward  2003-10-22 10:10:32
Re: Editor, please....  cypherpunks  2003-10-21 16:12:33
Re: Editor, please....  zx80  2003-10-21 14:33:35
Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux  laytonbaker  2003-10-21 10:48:13
Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux  KrisJ  2003-10-21 10:18:41
Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux  thaleus  2003-10-21 09:36:14
Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux  Viking  2003-10-21 08:27:47
Short question  Shaggy763  2003-10-21 08:08:17
Linux User's response  Harlock  2003-10-21 07:57:26
Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux  clasmc  2003-10-21 07:22:28
Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux  MHCBigs  2003-10-21 07:19:46
Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux  activist  2003-10-23 03:01:50
Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux  quadelirus  2003-10-21 19:11:09
Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux  MHCBigs  2003-10-22 07:02:41
Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux  quadelirus  2003-10-22 12:58:05
Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux  joeldg  2003-10-21 07:02:42
Born on the back of terrorists...  jasonlotito  2003-10-21 06:56:54
Everyone has an agenda  SmallTownGuy  2003-10-21 06:48:10
Enderle diplays zealot-like irrationality  oicu  2003-10-21 06:37:29
Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux  leng  2003-10-21 06:26:10
Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux  lotraz  2003-10-21 06:21:17
Godwin's Law  arthegall  2003-10-21 05:42:31
Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux  rsff  2003-10-21 05:37:53
To my favorite anti open source Zealot  treadup  2003-10-21 03:16:20
Re: To my favorite anti open source Zealot  bucurosa  2003-10-21 06:23:02
Provocation  Korpo  2003-10-21 01:09:22
Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux  seal  2003-10-21 00:36:38
Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux  jrrich  2003-10-21 11:43:36
Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux  jasonlotito  2003-10-21 07:00:55
Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux  Dekkard  2003-10-20 23:44:10
Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux  tungtung  2003-10-20 22:49:50
Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux  Steve_Martin  2003-10-20 19:26:25
Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux  RobEnderle  2003-10-20 21:09:44
Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux  CryBaby  2003-10-21 12:40:54
Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux  randal  2003-10-21 05:49:35
I think this is an oversimplification  Demosthenes  2003-10-20 18:41:25
Re: I think this is an oversimplification  RobEnderle  2003-10-20 20:06:15
Re: I think this is an oversimplification  quadelirus  2003-10-22 13:47:47
Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux  zuesse  2003-10-20 17:58:53
Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux  RobEnderle  2003-10-20 21:11:53
Re: Pros, Priests and Zealots: The Three Faces of Linux  ixnayrox  2003-10-20 17:50:17
So what category does IBM fall into?  dsnider  2003-10-20 17:45:39
Re: So what category does IBM fall into?  RobEnderle  2003-10-20 21:21:38
Re: So what category does IBM fall into?  wsharr  2003-10-21 21:49:16
Re: So what category does IBM fall into?  cypherpunks  2003-10-21 16:05:59
Re: So what category does IBM fall into?  dpates  2003-10-21 14:38:49
Re: So what category does IBM fall into?  cypherpunks  2003-10-21 11:58:15
Re: So what category does IBM fall into?  neillewis  2003-10-21 11:06:15
Re: So what category does IBM fall into?  simcop2387  2003-10-21 07:03:02
Re: So what category does IBM fall into?  pato  2003-10-21 05:59:49
Re: So what category does IBM fall into?  metal_hurlant  2003-10-21 00:23:52
Re: So what category does IBM fall into?  cacurler  2003-10-22 23:17:46
Re: So what category does IBM fall into?  vm_hacker  2003-10-21 00:07:32
Time to listen to your own advice.  cypherpunk  2003-10-20 16:13:46
Re: Time to listen to your own advice.  RobEnderle  2003-10-20 17:29:52
"kill"?  bani  2003-11-18 22:03:11
Re: Time to listen to your own advice.  CryBaby  2003-10-21 11:08:25
Re: Time to listen to your own advice.  aristeu  2003-10-21 07:01:56
Re: Time to listen to your own advice.  cypherpunk  2003-10-20 20:53:49
Re: Time to listen to your own advice.  RobEnderle  2003-10-20 21:30:15
Re: Time to listen to your own advice.  georgeB  2003-10-22 22:46:27
Re: Time to listen to your own advice.  cypherpunks  2003-10-21 16:27:54
Re: Re: Time to listen to your own advice.  ee_man  2003-10-21 10:00:30
Re: Time to listen to your own advice.  neillewis  2003-10-21 09:22:57
Re: Time to listen to your own advice.  cypherpunks  2003-10-23 01:06:09
Re: Time to listen to your own advice.  simcop2387  2003-10-21 06:44:39
Re: Time to listen to your own advice.  dokterneo  2003-10-21 06:27:28
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